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Fault reading on '97 JEA0 Espace with (apperently) no OBDII [message #48345] Sun, 10 December 2006 15:27 Zum nächsten Beitrag gehen
Gast
Hi,

I've spent many hours trying to find out how to read fault codes from the ECU of my '97 JEA0 2.0 8V Espace.
Somewhere I found that it should be OBD compatible, which was confirmed by the presence of an OBD connector and the right pins (K-line).
So i purchased a AGV2055 OBD-Diag Interface at www.obd-diag.de and tried to read codes.
All works fine with several different software programs, up to the point where the ECU should respond to the initial 101 command, which it doesn't (message 'Unable to connect').

Further investigation on the Internet learned that my car isn't OBD compatible after all, since it has an F3R 728 engine instead of a F3R 768 (so I read....), even though both should have the same Siemens Fenix 5 ECU.
Now this Fenix 5 ECu is used in many other cars, also non-Renault, and (general) specificactions found on the Internet about it suggest it must be ISO 9141-II compatible.
Specs of my AGV2055 OBD-Diag Interface of www.obd-diag.de suggest that it supports this protocol.
Still, no data can be read with it from my car.

I then let the matter rest a bit, until my airbag system started to show 'service' on the display two weeks ago.
I've had this before and replaced the connectors of the belt tensioners with a soldered connection which helped.
This time I've checked the connectors on the tensoiners underneath the seats themselves and also the one on the steering wheel airbag.
Also I had a look at the airbag computer underneath the driver seat and gave it a bit of W40 contact spray and wiggled it a bit.
Doesn't help.

Either it's another connector somewhere else or a component is really defective (airbag computer, an airbag or a tensioner).
Finding out by trial and error is very time consuming and doesn't garrantuee succes.

I'd like to see if the ECU gives a fault code that indicates which component is defective (or badly connected).

So I picked up the idea of reading fault comes again...
Again i spend many ours on the Internet trying to find information.
However, without help I don't think i can get any further.
So I have these questions:

Is there any software I can use on my laptop that WILL work on my car?
If so, how to get it? (CLIP? which version? where to get it? what else needed? Special cable?)

What are the 'commands' to be sent to the ECU? I used to be a programmer many years and think I will be able to make a little program to do the job, If I can get hold of the necessary information.

Will any of this work with the OBD interface I have, or do I need another one?
If so, where can I get it, or: please supply me the schematics so I can build one.

If anybody helps me to get going with solving this problem, I will of course post any progress on this forum.


Many thanks.

MarkN
Re: Fault reading on '97 JEA0 Espace with (apperently) no OBDII [message #49555 antworten auf 48345 ] Thu, 21 December 2006 12:37 Zum vorherigen Beitrag gehenZum nächsten Beitrag gehen
Classic Uli
Beiträge: 7473
Registriert: November 2005
Ort: Butzbach
Guru
Webmaster
Hi Marc,
welcome among the Espace friends!


Gast schrieb am So, 10 Dezember 2006 15:27

Hi,

I've spent many hours trying to find out how to read fault codes from the ECU of my '97 JEA0 2.0 8V Espace.
Somewhere I found that it should be OBD compatible, which was confirmed by the presence of an OBD connector and the right pins (K-line).


As far as I know that series is equipped with ODB I, which had a standardized hardware, but used proprietary protocols. All free sold ODB equipment I know of only supports ODB II, which (to my knowledge) has been introduced with the new Espace model JK in 2002, but for sure not earier than with the overhaul of the complete onboard electric/electronic in 1999 (introduction of CAN-Bus).


Zitat:

So i purchased a AGV2055 OBD-Diag Interface at www.obd-diag.de and tried to read codes.
All works fine with several different software programs, up to the point where the ECU should respond to the initial 101 command, which it doesn't (message 'Unable to connect').


Hmmm... seems to confirm my thoughts above. Hardware compatible, software/protocol proprietary. :heul:



Zitat:

Further investigation on the Internet learned that my car isn't OBD compatible after all, since it has an F3R 728 engine instead of a F3R 768 (so I read....), even though both should have the same Siemens Fenix 5 ECU.
Now this Fenix 5 ECu is used in many other cars, also non-Renault, and (general) specificactions found on the Internet about it suggest it must be ISO 9141-II compatible.
Specs of my AGV2055 OBD-Diag Interface of www.obd-diag.de suggest that it supports this protocol.
Still, no data can be read with it from my car.


There are two thoughts that come into my mind:
1. You do not connect directly to the ECU, but to the connector. I could imagine, that the Renault folks simply twisted two (or more) cables between connector and ECU... motz
2. I don't know if the Fenix ECU was equiped with the ODB II software by default or if it defines only the hardware - and uses specific software for each model its used in. And this software defines the data exchange protocol... grübel

Both lead in the end to the fact I wrote first: The hardware fits, but nothing works.


Zitat:

Is there any software I can use on my laptop that WILL work on my car?
If so, how to get it? (CLIP? which version? where to get it? what else needed? Special cable?)


As far as I know Renault workshop use a software developed by Renault. To my knowledge this software is not sold to 'third parties'. Maybe they also use a special hardware connector, I don't know.
How to get it? Hmmm... maybe becoming a Renault dealer? grübel

No, the only chance you may have is to find a Renault dealer dropping his business and selling his equipment. Sometimes offers like that can be found in EBay. But be aware, that these offers are very rare and that many people (even free workshops!) are on the search for these things!

But maybe anyone here knows a quicker/cheaper, simply better solution?

Best regards
Uli


J11 forever!

For Alltag... J637 mit LPG, 12/94 - aktuell 30x.xxx km
For Reserve.. J637, 03/96 - 210.000 km

Als Sammel-/Bastelobjekte:
- J112 Phase 1 TSE, 3/85 (Seriennummer 7167), 2.0L Vergaser, 192.500 km
- J117 Phase 1 TSE, 1/87, 2.2L Einspritzer, 133.000 km
- J117 Phase 2 2000-1, 1988

Schlachtplatte: J117 Bj. 90
icon7.gif  Re: Fault reading on '97 JEA0 Espace with (apperently) no OBDII [message #49916 antworten auf 49555 ] Sun, 24 December 2006 17:52 Zum vorherigen Beitrag gehenZum nächsten Beitrag gehen
MarkN ist gerade offline MarkN
Beiträge: 4
Registriert: December 2006
Ort: Niederlände
Grünschnabel
Hello Uli,

Many thanks for your reply! Smile

In the meantime I managed to get hold of a CLIP CD, version 64.
See my thread 'Clip V64 gibt Installationsfehler' in 'Themen, die mehr als eine Baureihe betreffen'. Smile

No luck yet, but I keep trying. grübel

I have seen XR25's on Ebay for sale in the past, but they don't exactly fit my budget... :heul:
I'm just a privat owner, unwilling to go to the dealer just to pay them for telling me what's wrong with my car. Cool

Bye,

Mark





Re: Fault reading on '97 JEA0 Espace with (apperently) no OBDII [message #105374 antworten auf 48345 ] Sun, 30 March 2008 16:52 Zum vorherigen Beitrag gehenZum nächsten Beitrag gehen
Gerhard S. ist gerade offline Gerhard S.
Beiträge: 1499
Registriert: August 2006
Ort: 45481
Espace-Verrückter
Hallo Mark,
die Clip-CD habe ich auch und lässt sich bei mir problemlos installieren. Es fehlt aber der USB-OBD(CAN-bus) Umsetzer.
Clip kommuniziert ausschliesslich über USB mit dem Espace.
Der Renault USB-OBD(CAN-bus) Umsetzer ist ein kleines, schwarzes Kästchen, ins Diagnosekabel integriert.
Bisher fand ich keinen third-party Ersatz: USB-OBD in both directions erforderlich.
Gerhard


Micro-Van WagonR+ MM 1.3 150.000km
***R.I.P.*** JE0H Grand '99, 2.2dT, ehemals 360.000km
Re: Fault reading on '97 JEA0 Espace with (apperently) no OBDII [message #118209 antworten auf 48345 ] Sun, 27 July 2008 19:47 Zum vorherigen Beitrag gehen
Gast
Fenix 5 has different software for each engine, Fenix 5 is only the hardware layout (same with Fenix 3, Sirius 32 etc). The 2.0 16v has Sirius 32 and is OBDII compatible.
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